- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.world
Reason number 5,386 to delete your Reddit account and encourage your friends & loved ones to do the same.
Reason number 5,386 to delete your Reddit account and encourage your friends & loved ones to do the same.
Because calling them Nazis doesn’t affect them - they’re proud of it. I don’t particularly care about being ACCURATE with those pieces of trash, and my attempts to do so would only be taken by them as a sign of weakness. It’s about getting to them psychologically and showing them I don’t respect them in a language they can understand. I get that the language is offensive to people who are not them as well, but it’s like a gun - it’s not just about the weapon, it’s about who you point it at. If it gets to Nazi bastards, I’m going to use it.
Oh awesome, could you explain how making fun of fat people constitutes psychological warfare against Nazis? It’s not like a gun, because a gun is a fucking inanimate object, and society and culture are not.
When you say that fatness is something that is akin to the same level of moral depravity as subscribing to genocidal politics, you are reproducing fascist constructions of the ideal human body and the relationship between physical deformity and social degradation. Liberals have used ageism, ableism, queerohobia and transphobia, racism, and yes, fatphobia to make fun of Nazis because most of them have no idea what is wrong about fascism besides the distastefulness of their tactics. It’s not about the language being “offensive,” it’s about anti-fascism.
You wanna be a fascist or not?
I also don’t really care about offending people, but claiming that they are conflating fatness with being a Nazi is ludicrous.
Them being fat isn’t worse than them being a Nazi, you braindead, victimhood-seeking pillouck. It is just offensive to say to them and makes them sad. Trying to police every word that people say is also highly fascist.
You wanna be a fascist or not?
You really are trying to twist what language means. We use words to be understood and you seem intent on mischaracterizing and misattributing the meaning of words when it suits you. Should we restrain from calling them pedophiles too? I mean surly there are some pedophiles out there who would be offended at being linking to Nazis. It BESMIRCHES the good name of pedophiles.
Please, good sir, tell me what insults I can hurl at the people MURDERING AND ABUSING PEOPLE that they actually care about? Shall I dig back a hundred years to find something no one else finds offensive? And they will?
This one is way more zealous than the other one, refer to the other comment for an explanation of the connection.
It isn’t that it’s mean, you dummy, it’s that the underlying values of this joke are in fact fascist in their orientation and, because people like you exist, it is an effective way to promote those values. If you need an example, think of the jokes about these people that reference inbreeding with the presumption that it is correlated with poor intellectual and cognitive ability, and therefore validates the idea that these moral qualities are related to genetic qualities (there is also a classist element in this joke given where they are oriented in the US geographically). Even if there is science to suggest that this is potentially a real consequence of inbreeding, I hope I don’t have to explain even more clearly to you why it is problematic to naturalize the correlation between genetics and the danger one group poses to society at large.
You’ve tried to lecture me on language, but you don’t seem to know what any of these words mean, which is why you are so vulnerable to the manipulation that they promote. You think every fascist is just what, dumber than you? You don’t think that maybe there’s a way to “trick” you into subscribing to the same values they do, especially if you already subscribe to liberalism wholeheartedly as what appears to be the case here? You don’t get to choose the consequences of your actions, you can only inform yourself so that you can make better decisions in the future. If the effect of this joke is that it reproduces the idea that there are physical markers for moral depravity, then you either have to admit that you want it to have that function or change the way you understand these terms and the context they exist in. Some fascists choose to be fascists, most of them just don’t think about it.
You think I’m a liberal…? Wow. Damn I’m glad I’m sitting down, that one hurt.
This is the sort of thinking that gets people to sit peacefully ont heir couch because violence is inherently fascist, and to use violence against the state would be morally repugnant because of the message it would send about how to resolve our differences.
How about, we kill the people hurting others for personal gain, and then we have a nice long talk about why we shouldn’t kill people in polite society, which those others intentionally destroyed?
Or is that promoting fascist ideology as well?
Oh look, another Lemmy “leftist,” who thinks systemic oppression is just when people are mean about how you look. We all know you’re a lib dude, nobody else is so self-righteous about aggrieved entitlement to bigotry. You want to feel like a good person without actually understanding what that means and putting the work into changing.
If you can’t tell the difference between anti-fascism and pacifism, you better stay the fuck on your couch, we don’t want you out here. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have a story about some smug fuck lib man showing up to events and saying some edgelord power-fantasy shit before saying some bigoted shit. You aren’t a fucking socialist if you subscribe to liberal constructions of human value, you dense chud.
Ok, dude. You know best right?
“when people are mean about how you look”
Like when you got butthurt I said it’s ok to call Nazis fat? Truly unreal levels of delusion to think you are the arbiter of truth and light.
Yes, I know better than you, get the fuck over it. You can’t even grasp how these forms of oppression are intersectional and you have the vibes of a socialist boyfriend who doesn’t do the dishes. I’m sure you’re very satisfied identifying every problem you have with the system from your limited perspective, knowledge, and empathy.
Won’t be responding to anything else other than your reading list on anti-fascist scholarship or writing related to these topics.
“Liberals have used ageism, ableism, queerohobia and transphobia, racism, and yes, fatphobia” One of these things is not like the others. One of these things doesn’t belong. You’re up in arms about the one thing a person can help. Fatness is curable. It can be done without drugs even.
I don’t particularly care for fat shaming myself. I’m classified as obese and struggle with compulsive eating the same as anyone, but you’ll never see me endorse a fat pride parade the same as a gay pride parade. Being fat is physically and mentally unhealthy and should not be promoted. Being body positive is good, being fat positive is not.
But we could probably all agree that it’s okay to shame ICE for being stupid evil assholes.
I do find it concerning just how many people talk about things like this without ever challenging their fundamental understanding of social norms. A lot of you do just assume you’re smarter than me, which is funny, and I wonder if you’ve ever actually read anything on fatphobia and the arguments for its recognition.
Bigotry is difficult for liberals to understand because they typically want to recognize it as individualized actions of aggression like calling someone a slur or being mean about someone’s weight. Have you considered for a moment that you are vulnerable to the laundering of values that promote dehumanization and genocide through vectors of “bigotry” which you don’t take seriously, such as fatness? You used the word “curable,” which is very convenient for me as it is a good demonstration of how this topic is medicalized (we can ignore the well-documented discrimination against fat people in medical settings for now), and specifically how it is pathologized. When something is pathologized, that means that whatever is seen as wrong with it is always relative to an idealized, “positive” thing; a fat body is bad (unhealthy) because it is not good like a thin body (healthy). Regardless of the medical science behind this construction (of which I’m sure you also have not read as it is well established by this point that fatness is not necessarily unhealthy relative to other factors), this has manifested socially as a vector of discrimination exactly because of the perception that this is an illness that is cured by willpower. Conveniently in an neoliberal culture, an illness that materializes laziness, poor self-control, and general moral degeneracy reinforces an individualism where individual people are responsible for the effects of their material conditions; i.e. you can choose to be fat the same way you can choose to be poor.
Because fatness is not a recognized vector for discrimination in the same way that racism and sexism is, it is an important site of scholarly discourses exactly because of how effective it is at laundering ableism and classism; along with the fact that it is a measurably oppressed and vulnerable group based on the research I allude to above. Liberals like you don’t question any of this, and then readily engage in the fascist rhetoric I am criticizing in this comment with the assumption that you are doing the righteous thing by promoting bodily health and dissuading any claim that a person’s fatness is not related to their moral quality of character. It is not about, “body-positivity” any more than anti-racism and anti-queerphobia is even though those forms of oppression similarly relate to the subordination of particular bodily attributes to others. That oppressive ideal of thinness is inextricably linked to ideas of whiteness, and “fitness” in a very fascist understanding of the natural world and human evolution.
Hope that explains some of it to you.
Being fat is objectively unhealthy and in fact a chronic disease. It brings with it high blood pressure, chronic fatigue, higher mortality rates in younger people, diabetes, higher rates of heart disease, blood clots, arthritis, strokes, poor sleep, and a hundred other things. And it’s in fact a chronic disease that can be cured. Without drugs.
There’s a reason the first thing they do at a doctor’s office is weigh you. It’s a simple metric that is a strong predictor of overall health.
I’m not saying this as an indictment against fat people. I’m not saying it’s okay to fat shame. I’m saying this as a simple fact that being fat is unhealthy and has real consequences. I am also saying it is morally wrong to say it’s okay being fat. Saying being fat is okay teaches people that health does not matter and they go on to live shorter more painful lives.
I don’t think I’m smarter than you. I think you’re over thinking this.
I think it is unironically very funny to assert something is real just because it’s normalized in medicine. As we all know, medsci is historically very conscious of social and material conditions and is not subject to the distortions of the classes of people who have access to that authority, and no new research is relevant ever. I guess that means black women really do feel less pain, trans people only started existing forty years ago, and skulls can actually teach us about racial intelligence (people were arguing for phrenology until the late twentieth century). That you’re arguing this during a period where eating disorders are very visible in popular culture is also just too perfect. Could you then, cite any articles or studies you’ve engaged with to build your oh-so-well-informed-and-underthought worldview? I have just a few off the top of my list:
The Obesity Myth: Why America’s Obsession with Weight Is Hazardous to your Health, Campos, 2004.
Yamawaki, Niwako, Christina Riley, Claudia Rasmussen, and Mary Cook, “The Effects of Obesity Myths on Perceptions of Sexual Assault Victims and Perpetrators’ Credibility,” Journal of Interpersonal Violence 33 (4): 662-85, 2018.
Ramos, Salas, X, M Forhan, and A. M Sharma, “Diffusing Obesity Myths,” Clinical Obesity, 4(3), 2014.
Pollack, Catherine C, “Characterizing the Prevalence of Obesity Misinformation, Factual Content, Stigma, and Positivity on the Social Media Platform Reddit Between 2011 and 2019: Infodemiology Study,” Journal of Medical Internet Research, 24 (12), 2022.
Lindeman, Tracey, Bleed: Destroying Myths and Misogyny in Endometriosis Care, 2024.
https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/a23-refcomm-d-annotated.pdf (2023 American Medical Association House of Delegates statement against the use of BMI).
There’s some social and medical criticisms of the concept of obesity as well as how it is measured and medicalized.
This is all of course besides the fact that, regardless of whether obesity is understood properly, its presence in this original joke is in fact still fascist and still functions to normalize the fundamental values of fatphobia as they intersect with transphobia, racism, misogyny, and ableism. “I think you’re over thinking this,” is a staple phrase of fascism. Maybe you should fucking think a bit.
You’re right. We shouldn’t make jokes at their expanse.
Okay chud. Let’s see your audience’s reaction:
(See how you can make fun of them without making fun of vulnerable groups? its so easy when you aren’t a bigot)