Just pick one - All the Fox functionality without bloatware
Librewolf - https://librewolf.net/
Waterfox - https://www.waterfox.com/
Zen Browser - https://zen-browser.app/
More browsers here - https://alternativeto.net/category/browsers/firefox-based/
You can also use this add to disable the shitload ai function in many search engines in one go
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/disable-ai/
GitHub page - https://github.com/jruns/disable-ai
You can find all the links on Mastodon<
Really hate how iOS has zero alternatives. Thanks apple for your stupid WebKit.
There are some good iOS browsers.
At the moment, I use Orion (from Kagi) and Narrow32. Quiche Browser is good, DuckDuckGo is fine.
Discoverability on iOS is awful though. The store is just packed with SEO spam and corporate slop on top of all the passion projects or “benevolent” ones.
At the moment, iOS doesn’t not allow any other browser engines. Every browser on iOS is just reskinned Safari.
That’s kind of a blessing in disguise; otherwise basically all web traffic would be Chrome.
Apparenty this is softening some: https://www.techspot.com/news/108965-japan-gives-apple-december-deadline-drop-ios-browser.html
And Safari is quite performant on iOS.
Maybe I’m too cynical, but I wouldn’t mind if that continues, just so there’s some chunk of traffic that isn’t Chrome and that web development doesn’t turn into a complete monoculture. A smidge of Firefox and Safari alone isn’t enough for that.
(EDIT: My assumption is that if Apple allows Chrome on iOS, you can bet they are going to funnel basically everyone into it).
Could be worse, seriously. Safari is not a bad browser and WebKit is the only engine since years that can keep up with chromium. I get that it is annoying to have leas freedom on iOS, but I also appreciate the increased security[1] and quality of life that comes with it.
[1] yes, I am aware that open source software tends to be more secure, as it can be reviewed by all. However, Android by default is way less secure than iOS, unless you use GraphiteOS or similar.
I also appreciate the increased security
This hasn’t been true for a long, long time. Mac was only ever more secure than windows because not enough people used them to make them worthwhile attack vectors. Nowadays, iOS sees just as many vulnerabilities as every other popular OS.
Report after report finds iOS to be more secure than Android. Here’s just one example: https://www.rokform.com/blogs/rokform-blog/which-is-more-secure-iphone-or-android
I wouldn’t really call this a “report” when there aren’t any metrics in the reasoning other than price.
Even in their own article, it mentions how support and updates vary by manufacturer so it’s kind of meaningless to compare iPhone to the whole Android ecosystem. You’d need to choose one or more manufacturer in order to make an apples to apples comparison.
It was just the first one that came to hand. LOL at this source for another example: https://deepstrike.io/blog/Malware-Attacks-and-Infections-2025
That claims that Android devices are 50 times more likely to be compromised than iOS. Look at most reports from people like Kasperky & Malwarebytes and they don’t even bother to mention iOS in statistics and only occasionally mention the platform if there is a specific notable threat.
It can be argued that iOS isn’t as secure as Apple would like you to think or as a lot of Apple users do think, but it really can’t be argued that it’s equally as vulnerable as Android
Without taking a position on the claim itself, this is a bad citation. It makes a variety of claims that either don’t hold up to basic scrutiny, or aren’t evidence that iOS has a security advantage. Here are some examples:
Open-source platform increases vulnerability surface area
This is perhaps one of the most thoroughly debunked pieces of FUD in the entire tech industry.
[Various claims about inconsistency between devices]
These are mostly true but largely irrelevant. You’re not buying an aggregate of all Android devices that exist, but a specific device with specific traits. The Android phone you should actually buy will have a security chip and many years of updates just like an iPhone.
The rigorous app review process and mandatory App Store distribution (except in EU) virtually eliminate malicious app threats for average users.
This might be a benefit when the user has no clue how to use a computer, but I expect people posting in this community are past that stage. It’s a big disadvantage for those who want to use something like Firefox (real Firefox, not a skin on Safari) with potential security and privacy upsides.
Nowadays, iOS sees just as many vulnerabilities as every other popular OS.
I’m no Apple fanboy but Apple security is more than the OS. Since they also produce all of the hardware, it means they can do things at the hardware level and either make available or restrict things to the OS that Windows cannot do because Microsoft doesn’t control all the hardware makers.
I’m posting this in Asahi Linux on an M2 powered Macbook. Its been an interesting experience learning not only the benefits of this as a hardware platform, but also its limitations from the FOSS point of view.
I use all 3 and generally bounce back and forth between them. They’re all good.
Just pick one and go. They’ll get the job done.
I was ignoring everything Waterfox back when I realize they were bought by an advertising company, System1, which also owns StartPage.
BUT, I recently read from Wikipedia that Waterfox has gone independent again since 2023.
As someone who uses waterfox but hadn’t heard any of this news, that was a rollercoaster. But consider me relieved.
I also just installed Waterfox for the first time after reading the Wikipedia page. I use it to replace Firefox to be used when I need webgl or webrtc/voice call. my main browser is still Librewolf
Zen ♥️
Am I the only one that zen is laggy and buggy for?
Been using it for awhile now and it’s getting better with each release!
Konform Browser is more recent Firefox (actually LibreWolf) fork which goes even further in debloating, removing “AI” functionality and disabling remote connections. It’s based on Firefox ESR (like GNUZilla IceCat).
If you have concerns about the telemetry and browser metadata privacy parts of AI integrations, I think Konform, IceCat, Waterfox and Mullvad Browser are a lot more relevant than Zen…
Does librewolf or water fox have a mobile version that syncs tabs to desktop like official Firefox ?
All Geckos can sync if Mozilla Sync is enabled with an account. So you can sync say LibreWokf or WarwrFox on desktop to any mobile version, such as IronFoz. They do not have to “match”.
Oh cool, I didn’t know that and it was the main fear I had from swapping. I really should have just looked it up by now, but oh well.
And at some point someone will tell me what is so horrifying about these new features? Mozilla might be the only company trying to provide privacy first AI features. What exactly is so bad here? You can even disable these features if you do not like them at all.
The problem is that they’re pushing it without any way for those of us who really don’t want that crap to strip it out of the browser. I don’t want all this ai garbage, never asked for it, and am harassed at every corner by every fucking company thinking it’s somehow going to change the world.
Sure, Mozilla allows you to turn off some of these features, but I’ve already had it reenabled in updates after previously disabling it. Further, many of the settings are buried in about:config, which is not a user-friendly way to make those changes. At best, these functionalities should be opt-in and presented as addons that can be installed, rather than being a core part of the browser that cannot be removed.
It is opt in. Or will be. And they’re adding an AI switch.
Not disagreeing with you, just adding context.
The bigger problem is that they’re wasting their finite resources on this crap instead of adding actually cool features like their forks are doing.
They keep saying their ai features will be opt-in, and yet everything they’ve rolled out so far is opt-out. I struggle to believe future ‘features’ will be any different. Maybe it’s opt-in in the sense that I’m not required to click whichever button activates it, like whatever they added to the context menu, but that’s not really what opt-in means and degrades my trust in Mozilla.
I’m also frustrated by their seeming inability to focus on their core browser product and building a popular competitor to chromium browsers instead of going off on side quests.
Yeah, the AI- free Firefox browser is normal firefox with the AI slider set to “off”
A sports car is a van where you weld the back doors shut.
Very funny, but in what scenario does my proposed solution not work
- You still have the extra bloat in memory.
- it shows a lack of focus on core issues rather than adding “cool” features.
- Can you actually trust that switching it off will disable it in every place they’ve incorporated it, not just now, but also in future?
There are undoubtedly other issues too.
There is no such thing as a privacy first AI, unless you’ve the hardware to run the model yourself (and, you don’t).
There different kinds of AI and some run just fine locally or even on mobile. Not everything is a big LLM.
Are there any plans to make a mobile browser?
