• noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org
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    6 months ago

    Russian Cyrillic here.

    Yes, there are both upper- and lowercase letters. Most kinda look like the same letter.

    Yes, there are serif and sans-serif fonts. I haven’t noticed any difference in use between the Russian and the English alphabets in that regard – serif is more prevalent in books and printed media, while sans-serif rules the digital (and maybe headings and headlines in printed).

    As for the emphasis, the Russian alphabet and fonts (at least the popular ones) do support emphasis, like bold, italics, etc., but italics is used much less liberally. For example, I often see italics used in English to either make the reader emphasize a word or a phrase differently, or to make a name of a piece of fiction stand out (e.g. Dishonored vs Dishonored). I can’t recall a single time I’ve seen the former being used in Russian, neither in fiction, nor on the Internet – the only thing somewhat close to it would be in-universe letters or writings, but those are often put in their own paragraph with different margins and all.

    The italics in the Russian digital fonts is not the same as the Russian or Cyrillic cursive, though. While the latter may be vastly different from the printed letters, varying by the age group (older generations have pretty different cursive from people my age, especially with some letters like the lowercase T), the former is basically the same style shift as in the Latin alphabets. For example:

    • Regular: Съешь же ещё этих мягких французских булок, да выпей чаю.
    • Italics: Съешь же ещё этих мягких французских булок, да выпей чаю.

    As for the Russian cursive, I would say it’s actually closer to the printed Russian than the English cursive is to the printed English. There are some letters that often tend to blend together in cursive, such as the lowercase И, Л, Ш, Щ, but with proper spacing, they’re really easy to tell apart; especially given how they’re not that often that close to each other in most sentences.

    The cursive English lowercase F, on the other hand, or uppercase S, or lowercase R, for example, left me guessing the first few times I saw them.

    So, the Russian, or the Cyrillic alphabets are pretty boring in that regard when compared to the Latin-based alphabets of Europe. The region may be vast and varied, but its peoples are still pretty close and similar to each other.

        • daggermoon@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          I have a weird fascination with Russia and other Slavic countries. Do you mind if I ask more questions? I’m American btw.

          • nullptr@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Lol go ahead but keep in mind I Left Russia 20 years ago and never visited since,so my opinion might not be representative

            • daggermoon@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              What are the people like? Are they kind, are they assholes? I’ve read the majority of the population doesn’t approve of LGBT people. Also, is it me or is most Russian art really grim and dark? I say this as someone who loves Russian music, films, and games. How do Russians feel about Americans? I’ve met a few Russian immigrants, they seemed really friendly. Also, do you have any Russian music recommendations? Do you live in the US now? How does it compare to Russia? Thank you!

              • nullptr@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                I dont quite remember what are people like. I remember my high school camarades were fine I guess. Like everywhere, many assholes, many nice people. I believe it is fair to say that majority doesn’t openly support LGBT, but there are (were?) a famous dude making music, who was openly homosexual; I don’t know what happened to him (“боря моисеев”). (Oh just checked, he died in 2022). I don’t think many people actually are actively anti LGBT, they just happen to support whatever the television is telling them.

                I would say totally say Russians aren’t that friendly as Americans lol. I visited US multiple times and was shocked how easy it is for basically strangers to start a conversation in US. I don’t live in US, I live in France for almost 20 years now. I totally prefer Europe over US.

                I tend to not meet other Russian immigrants because I am very anti war and I think anyone who supports pootin is a moron. However, recently I went to a meeting group among other fellow immigrants who are also against war. And they seemed friendly enough.

                It is hard to give modern music recommendations, but among the classics are “Виктор Цой”, “ДДТ”, “Алла Пугачева”. I don’t know what cool kids are listening to nowadays, maybe “Гуф”, or “Баста”. Виктор Цой was extremely popular and almost a national hero. I still love him and listen regularly. “ДДТ Вороны” has to be the most profoundly depressing song I know, it’s impossible to listen without tears

                • daggermoon@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  Thank you. I find it fascinating to hear about different countries. I’ll check out your music recs.

  • ccunning@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Thai does not have upper case letters.

    It does have a character that essentially means duplicate the previous word which is a common way to pluralize or emphasize:

    Child = เด็ก “dèk”
    Children = เด็กเด็ก or เด็กๆ “dèkdèk”

    Pretty = งาม “ngaam”
    Pretty! = งามงาม or งามๆ “ngaamngaam”

  • There’s no capitalization in written Chinese.

    But there is a “upper case” for writing numbers. Its set of very complex characters meant for writing contracts so you can’t easily tamper with it.

    Like “一” (one) could be easily changed to a “十” (ten) with just one stroke, but “壹” also means “one”, but you can’t add strokes to change it, any attempt at tampering with contracts/documents would be easily noticed. Usually this is never used in every-day life.

    (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_numerals#Ordinary_numerals)

    It’s not really “capitalization” but more like writing “One Thousand Dollars” instead of “$1000”

    Idk what you mean by “emphasis”, but there is no difference between proper nouns and common nouns. I mean, there is italics and bold if written digitally. Or underlining it if written on paper.

    (I’m Chinese-American btw)

  • shoebum@lemmy.zip
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    6 months ago

    Hindi or any Indic languages (popular ones) have any case differentiation.

    Mostly because emphasis on any word is not literal it is tonal.

    So there are these things called - matra (12 matras in hindi)

    They are symbols representing inflection/emphasis etc. and we can combine them with each character of the alphabet and convey tone.

    • Paragone@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I think shoebum was saying that “Hindi, or any Indic languages ( Devanagari-based ones ) do not have any case differentiation.”

      I tried learning Sanskrit ( because it seems to be THE language that scripture ought be in ) … and … ugh.

      Devanagari is a syllabari, not an alphabet ( each character is a syllable ), and they hide letters among other letters, in a way that only a child could learn.

      My old brain’s too wooden to learn that stuff at anything-like a useful speed.


      Nobody’s mentioned, though, that the absence of upper/lower case variants breaks CamelCase programming for those languages.

      This means that people whose primary language doesn’t have upper/lower case characters, they probably have a harder time understanding program-code that is written that way.

      There’s a programming-language Citrine which is intentionally designed so that everybody can program in their own language, with it, so apparently it’s the same programming-language, but in zillions of different scripts & languages…

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrine_(programming_language)

      https://www.citrine-lang.org/


      I’ve no idea if there are matras in Sanskrit: I never got that far ( learning the basic characters, & their pronunciation, defeated me, the 2-3 times I tried learning it ), but that seems brilliant…

      There’s a yt channel on it which has some good help: Sanskrit is engineered to make each sound distinct from the others, in a scientific/systematic way, & so it uses one’s mouth/formants scientifically… they show … it’s something like 5 sounds times 5 variations, or something ( been a couple years since I tried last )…


      but the basic-question: is there some visual emphasis which is global, instead-of only in specific scripts…

      honestly, I can’t think of any…

      I’ve read ( in Gleick’s “The Information” ) that African languages are usually tonal, & Chinese is tonal ( so “ma” and “ma” in different notes means 2 different things ) … hey!

      I just remembered: many languages are illiterate languages, to begin with.

      that … partially breaks the question, because many languages have a foreign symbol-system just stuck onto them, then…

      Like all the American Indian languages that hadn’t evolved their own symbols, when we stuck symbols on their languages, that … broke the natural-language-evolution process?

      Or is it that it is natural for only a percentage of a world’s languages to have any writing?

      hmm…

      foreign/imposed writing-systems would, though, be significantly less likely to have an appropriate system-of-emphasis, is this point…

      _ /\ _

      • shoebum@lemmy.zip
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        6 months ago

        A lot of excellent observations.

        But you did answer your question when you mentioned most older scripts were illiterate (in the academic sense).

        Illiterate scripts inherently carry a lot of information whose priority is to convey the message independent of the listener (I’m guessing)

        I think languages that can convey tone are awesome. It makes the language richer and less ambiguous

        • Paragone@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          My point is that when we imposed scripts on languages-which-are-tonal, & our script doesn’t indicate tone, then we sabotaged all communications done in the resulting language-script pairing.

          That that mismatch damages all communication which goes through that specific mis-engineered “channel”.

          & that each language is going to have its own pattern of what’s-important/what-isn’t-important, & that having a script which mismatches THAT language’s paradigm is going to damage communications in it, automatically

          & that all imposed-script-on-language situations are significantly more likely to mismatch, than are self-evolved scripts.


          ( that being said, the Semitic languages, both Hebrew & Arabic, have the nasty habit of leaving out the vowels from script, because “of course everybody already knows which vowels we mean: we do, so therefor everybody does!”

          which trashes our ability to be certain about ancient texts…

          I’ve read that for ages the Masoretic version of the “book of Job” had the guy end-up with thousands of gold pieces, because in Hebrew the non-vowels for “sheep” and “gold-pieces” are identical…

          so their script didn’t value identifying that, because in the writer’s minds “everybody already knows”…

          but in the Aramaic text, the words are not identical-in-nonvowels, so therefore it was shown, through the Dead Sea Scrolls, that the whole Masoretic “gold-pieces” claim, in that book was different from the original text/meaning/rendition.

          So, scripts that include what the language’s people find to be important … can sometimes leave-out critical information!

          But, if what was important to the original-language people was excluding outsiders … then, of course that’d be effective-means!

          & group-identity is one of the functions of languages, so … that has to be kept in mind, too…

          sigh )